Replying to LO25615 --
Good morning, At and Loers
well it is morning (MOnday) in New Zealand
> >Could you please share with me specific extensive
> >and intensive factors in an organisational (business
> >organisation) setting and give me examples of these
> >factors. Something that is measurable in both the
> >extensive and intensive factors.
>
> I will try to comply to your request. But I have to point out to fellow
> learners that between your request and the complaince there are obstacles
> (both with material and mental dimensions" which we will have to cross
> over:
> (1) The river of "LEP dancing on LEC"
> (2) The mountain of Mensuration.
>
> I have crossed the the "river" so many times that I almost can do it like
> saying a rhyme -- please forgive me when my report sounds like a rhyme
> too. However, I have done this crossing frequently alone. It is great to
> cross it, but doing it alone is not nice. I have also crossed the
> "mountain" a couple of times which itself is also great. But doing it
> alone is something which I now prefer to avoid.
Thank you for answering because I needed to confirm your interpretation of
a business environment extensive and intensive factor- My chemical
background is shocking.
Yes and what a fantastic response.
> Please, do not get the idea that I am saying that I am better than you. I
> have merely the advantage of more than thirty years working my butt off.
That's a pretty long time, I have been at it only 10 years 5 hours a day 7
days a week.
> EXAMPLE OF X x Y PAIR
For those of you who have read Stephen Covey's 7 Habits will notice that
this is non another than the (p) (pc) balance. Production and production
capability he used the example of the potential of the goose to lay the
golden eggs and the golden eggs.
> This question is important because there is a curious "logical pattern"
> operating between products of extensive and intensive quantities. The
> pattern is as follows (with the truth pattern for binary Boolean logic given
> in brackets behind them).
In another thread I will also explain that this is exactly what Elliot
Jaques has been doing for 50 years he discovered the levels of logic to
cognition and levels of abstraction and its extensive factor time. Exactly
what At has been calling the XY pairing. In his book the form of time this
issue has been deeply discussed.
> So let us assume that "commitment" C is complementary to the "target" T.
> If this is the case, then we will have at least to prove that should we be
> able to measure "commitment" C soundly, it is an intensive quantity. Now
> how will we measure the "commitment" C of an organisation? Here I must
> admit that there is little available with which I am satisfied. The usual
> 3 "good|fair|poor" or 5 "excellent|good|fair|poor|bad" questionnaire with
> an average is poor at its best. In my opinion it requires a weighting
> connected to the kind of job (perhaps weighted with salary).
Fantastic, now I will share with you, that commitment has some special
qualities, and exactly what I have been talking about all the time. (and
time is both an intensive and extensive factor, I will talk about this
later).
Why are people committed? Because they value (values, needs, culture,
motives are closely related) what they do. What motivates them? It is non
other than their needs, desires, hopes, fears and pain. This is easily
provable.
I have profile hundreds of people and the outputs are always the same,
either outputs or specifics like, satisfaction, enjoyment, pleasure,
challenge, commitment and specifics like recognition, harmony, team work
etc.
e.g.
I feel commitment when management shows commitment-
I feel committed when I have job variety
I feel committed when I enjoy the work
I feel committed when others are committed
I feel committed when I am recognized
I feel committed when the surroundings are nice
I feel committed when I am in a secure environment.
I feel committed when I am paid well.
I feel committed when I can be creative
I feel committed when I am growing
etc etc
Which is non other that the algedonic signal. It is the pressure -tension
the invariant factor the intensive factor.
The holo part of the whole.
I have shared with you many times how it works and I will do so again. I
am quite happy to walk this road again.
The tension (or pressure) between our fears (pain) and our hopes,
ambitions and ideals is the intensive factor. Time (space) of intention
is the extensive counterpart. There are no needs (motives) outside these.
(You will see down below that space time of intention becomes the
intensive factor)
I will leave the pressure part for some other time because it also has an
incredible effect quite different to the tension- Buckminster Fuller spoke
of processional effects with the pressure. And EKS works in this manner.
Here are the factors again.(the tension)
Need to feel supported safe and secure- the pain of abandonment, neglect and
insecurity
Need to feel belonging- the pain of betrayal, left out, ostracized
Need to have status, uniqueness, be seen, recognition- the pain of rejection and
no identity
Need to feel strong and invincible and for succession- the pain of disappearing,
depletion, contraction
Need to have and possess plenty- the pain of poverty and deprivation
Need for autonomy, expression and feel liberated- the pain of restriction,
bondage and suppression
Need for beauty harmony, perfection- the pain of degradation, punishment and
oblivion
Need for nourishment- pain of starvation
Need for sexuality- and and whole host of all the above pain signals that are
given off.
Pain is the emotion of separation (apartheid means to separate), is it any
wonder the immense tension that was built up in South Africa and its
effects today.
Physical pain tells we must act-there is something wrong-we could be under
attack.
All the above are a mixture of physical and mental needs. These are non
other than the pain -pleasure principle. The key drivers of mankind.
The pairing is (space time of intention) (tension of pain- pleasure-same
as fear- ideal, hope)
There is also another coupling which looks like this (motivational
behaviour) (tension of fear- ideal, hope)
For those of you who are interested NLP has modeled extensive motivational
behavior.
> The "commitment" C never changed with such scaling from one to the other
> of the three in my intuitive "good|fair|poor" feeling. Thus it had to be
> intensive. However, there were often almost a tangible change from one to
> another of the three when the top management changed, expecially the
> "boss". Since the top management had merely been replaced, this change in
> the "good|fair|poor" feeling had nothing to with scaling. The change told
> me that it was indeed an intensive quantity of which its value was
> intimately connected to the top levels of managemnst rather than the
> bottom levels of workers with little management responsibilities. It
> brought me deeply under the impression how much "commitment" C had to do
> with leadership
Yes I will now bring in the leadership stuff. Elliot Jaques spent 50 years
researching this and the pairing is non other than
(real projected time) (mode- i.e. cognition)
Mode and cognition is also non other than human logic and cognition where
huge amounts of research has been done using truth tables and Boolean
logic and levels of abstraction and complexity of information.
And now for the real exciting part about time. Time is both and extensive and
intensive factor.
I spoke about the (DO) and (CF). on earlier threads.
Here is the paring (chronos time) (kairos time) -At you might remember our
arguments on this issue.
(Time as measured by our clocks) (time as measured by our intention)
Why did we need accurate time here is one small reason- the only way the
British East India company could protect its sea supply lanes was develop
something that could measure longitude- up steps Newton to offer the first
person 20 000 pounds who could solve the problem. They could then cross
the Atlantic anywhere and not be caught by pirates or the Spanish and the
French laying in wait in the sea lanes. (To threaten or separate them from
their goods, wealth, security, survival, condiments, future security etc)
What were the British protecting?- supplies and supplies do non other than
feed the needs of the insatiable markets back home- the reason for
industrial effort, non other than to meet the needs of mankind. (Mankinds
Motives)
Time and motives will never be far apart.
The love couple in a "fluxing and forceful" embrace.
Harrison "the creative" designed the first accurate clock the brass steel
pendulum. He did get his 20000 pounds in the end by the order of the king.
We now have a very interesting thing that time is both an intensive and
extensive quantity. Recognised by both Progogine and Jaques. (At 90
degrees to each other)
Also the inter- relationships and effects that cognition, time, motives
have on each other are enormous. I think that this is what you mean by the
Onsager effect.
Maybe you might see now why I have used time as the basis for my personal
taxonomy.
Something nice and "creative" to ponder over.
kindest
gavin
--Gavin Ritz <garritz@xtra.co.nz>
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