Replying to LO25635 --
Dear At and LOers
> I have to point out once again that when, say 1000 people, fit your
> description exactly and understand it, then the 1001-th person comes along
> who does not fit it and also understand why. Thus the description is still
> incomplete for me. These 1001-th persons, although a small minority, is
> just as part of humankind as the overwhelming rest.
I could go on and say it is more than 1000 people (which it is, it would
have been on average 500 per year over 5 years) (One of my main jobs is a
selection consultant) and then you could say what about the 2501 person
and you would be correct, could there be an exception. Yes, there could be
but at this stage it is highly improbable but not impossible.
I do also know how there could be exceptions. There are a number of
psychiatric disorders that give indication that there could be an
exception one is a psychopath. I have also met another exception he was
long gone after years of dope and other drugs.
Another exception is a most interesting concept (and I have experienced
this myself on a number of occasions). It is a point where ones ego
boundaries are suspended to a singularity i.e. zero. In Christianity I
think it was spoken about by St. Augustine, and St. John of the Cross.
The so called No-self or Stillpoint.
In Hinduism it is called the Atman or the Essential Identity.
However I have no real interest in what religions say it is or isn't.
One can pressurize the algedonic signal to zero from the pain point
inwards and from the desire point inwards to an zero which creates
extremely high pressure. One then can burst out of the ego boundary
(mental peripheral rind). There are number of techniques to do this. I
also had a spontaneous experience when I clearly identified this
principle. It is one of the laws of nature. See integrity structures in
cells. Just look at nature the answer is everywhere. My daughter did me a
drawing just the other day, it says "there are always two sides" on it was
a smiley sun, and a dark rain cloud with lightening.
The end result is non describable so I cannot share with you what it is.
It is like being everywhere at once but being nowhere incontinuum.
Seemingly infinite but finite all at same time. There is no fear no pain
and no ideal, no feelings or even idea of the self (the physical me).
Ecstasy, support, power, heavenly comes to mind but those are just human
values transposed. I can remember touching my wrist and arm and thinking
(I am not sure if I was thinking) wow my wrist is stretched to infinity.
And anyone can do it. I am just stupid enough to try.
> As I grew older, and especially since my Christain rebirth some thirty
> years ago, I began to struggle understanding not only the 1000 persons,
> but also the 1001-th person. St Paul, for example, is a magnificent
> example of the 1001-th person, the one who does not fit with the 1000
> persons, yet who can become like any one of them so as to let some of them
> also experience the Love of God. Thus also began my struggle to understand
> myself as possibly a 1001-th person -- someone who kept on asking
> questions and got mostly trouble for doing so.
To believe in what you feel is right or good for you is your prerogative,
you have the freedom to choose any path that works for you. Age hardens
values and motives but increases cognition.
> [When I think of Jesus of Nazareth, I have to change my ratio from the
> 1001-th to 100,000,000,001-th person thinking of all humans who lived
> before and after him.]
You have the right to say what you please if that feels right for you,
then it is right.
> Sublime "free energy" is like Love. St John calls Love the law of perfect
> freedom. St Paul says that Love never fails. St Peter says that Love
> covers all failures. Jesus says that Love judges not, but saves. For me
> sublime "free energy" is that "free energy" which gets released by a
> "creative collapse" -- to give up rather than to import so as to gain in
> the higher levels of spirituality. The ultimate manifestation of sublime
> "free energy" is Love.
I am a little confused by this, I have my own perspective of love and I
would say that we do not agree on this.
> As for time itself, its relation to "entropy production" has been noted as
> far back as the cosmologist sir Eddington who often said that "entropy is
> the arrow" of time. Prigogine and co-workers finally managed to show that
> the supe operators "entropy" and "time" of star-hermitian quantum
> mechanics are complementary to each other. Whereas "entropy" is extensive,
> "clock time" is intensive. Thus you will have to show me HOW "chronos" is
> intensive and "kairos" is extensive rather than expecting me to accept
> THAT it is the case.
I cannot show you, only you can show yourself, only you know what you
would lose or gain if you didn't know. But I will try below.
However clock time is extensive you can divide it, add it so it is not an
intensive factor. Motivational time is intensive it cannot be divided
added to, its density is constant for that individual. It is the same in
all proportions of the human mind.
The human mind is a void when we are born, we create attachments through
many things, first through hunger, pain and pleasure. Suckling our mothers
breast for warmth and sustenance. Then we start filling this void with
facts, values, fears, pain, pleasure, hopes, ideals, concepts and notions,
ambitions, seeking to fulfill some longing. We try affirm what we know
using our JND (just noticeable differences) capabilities as we grow and
explore our little worlds. As we get older the void slowly becomes a
structure (its own unique form and shape) in the mind growing as we grow
expanding as we expand and unable to grow in some parts of the structure.
Some parts suck and frozen in space-time as related to deep sorrows that
cover our original pain. We keep covering this pain with more layers
eventually forgetting what this pain is. We then start hoping and
desiring, for ideals, attached to things or other people, hoping for
salvation from this wound that we do not even know exists anymore. We
don't even know the nature of this wound. But we keep seeking.
Some call it the devil others call it the dark side, but it is our own
pain. We are cut off from something and we think if we find this thing "
the holy grail" all will be fine and happy. So, some think that to feel
special and be seen will work, others want the comfort of others for
security, others think that lots of possessions will do it. Others think
that love is the answer, harmony in the world, no its must be the
creativity, freedom, liberty. No it must be abundance, surely it is
support of our family, no its the evil created by others, they are the
problem. What turmoil we seem to live in.
Because we have cheated ourselves we think we can fill that emptiness. So
we create hope and have faith in another direction that maybe this will
fix things inside, but inside we really now that this could never be. But
we still cling to it. It's our anchor, we will die for it, it is our
rock, the citadel that gives us strength.
Is this really so, sadly no.
We are but forever boxed into our minds time-space structure no longer a
void but the potential to become infinite. But it can never be so because
it is boxed in a finite brain. This makes us struggle for freedom to be
liberated to express ourselves to be creative. But all we do is allow the
pleasure principle to work. Energy flows through us (this is work) energy
in flow. It gives us great pleasure and fantastic sensations. And we think
this is the truth. We mistake this for Love, but all this is, is smoke and
mirrors.
No At, we are all prisoners of the algedonic signal- alas if only you
could see. I have been there and back. If I could take you behind the
Wizards curtain I would but it none of my business. This veil cheats us
all.
Here is a test for the the kairos factor. Can you recall the one of the
most pleasurable times in your life? Can you visualize it, can you maybe
feel what you felt at that point in time? Maybe the smells, the
sensations, the wind, the sea, the desert smells.
Can you divide this experience, can you relive the time in your mind, can
you divide this time?
I will leave this for you to explore, only you can know.
> Perhaps your "kairos" is the perception of time at the edge of chaos. If
> it is, then it "kairos" is also intensive since entropy is extensive,
> whether close to equilibrium or at the edge of chaos.
Yes Kairos is time of intention which is an intensive factor. But it also
happened in clock time which can be divided, added. This is the paradox of
TIME.
> On the other hand,
> perhaps you "kairos", especially when you speak of it as intention, is
> "entropy production" itself. It was nobody else than Max Planck, the
> grandfather of quantum mechanics who persisted with interpreting entropy
> as the propensity of nature despite the increasing popularity of the
> interpretation of entropy as chaos. You will have to find out for
> yourself.
I will share with you that I have absolutely no doubt that Entropy is what
you say. I have pulled out my old Thermodynamics books plus a few old
Chem. books. I cannot find anywhere where entropy is disorder or chaos.
You are dead right when you say the Gibbs formula shows that entropy is a
measure of order and disorder in organization. I too have battled with the
entropy concept but you have put things into an excellent perspective one
that I know internally is correct.
> I would suggest that should you visit South Africa again, try to find one
> of those rare and enigmatic monoliths called a "lunsklip" (linch stone).
> Let your thoughts meander while becoming one with nature at such a
> "lunsklip".
Maybe I will one day. I also apologize to you about the techniques I used
some months, I used a motivational lever to separate you from your motives
and values, it was unfair of me. But I felt that you often use this very
lever yourself, I am sure you are unaware of it. It's the very algedonic
signal I go on some much about. And it does not allow for authentic
learning. It is a mental means to control outcomes.
kindest
gavin
--Gavin Ritz <garritz@xtra.co.nz>
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