Replying to LO26395 --
Hi Roy
Roy Benford wrote:
> Hi Gavin
>
> >I would like to propose a new name for Systems Thinking " Processing
> >Thinking" or how about "Flow thinking".
>
> I am not comfortable with the term "flow thinking" because, in my mind, has
> associations with "flow in consciousness" (reference 'Optimal experience' by
> Csikszentmihalyi & Csikszentmihalyi).
There is not too much different between the flow of Csiksentmikalyi and
the flow of systems thinking. Mihalyi just focuses on happiness caused by
the associated flow.
> This flow in consciousness may be
> optimal individual experience but its impact on society is not always
> optimal, i.e. 'Bosozoko:flow in Japanese motorcycle gangs'.
Absolutely, that is the reason why many theories and models have arisen to
solve this very complex problem (e.g. EKS and TOC). This is the whole
premise behind bottleneck or constraint models.
> >Systems pertains to the whole system including the structure and
> >processing parts is this not so?
>
> Because this list is about learning organisations, I have always assumed
> that discussions about systems on this list refer to social systems.
That is an interesting point can one define the boundaries between social
systems and other systems. Not too easy because we are intertwined with
all systems (process and structures) in all facets of our life.
> I
> agree that structure and process are important aspects of systems. In my
> view, social systems are systems plus humanity.
What about the material and technical process structures that are
intertwined with our social systems. e.g. box cars that take our goods
from A to B, planes that take us from A to B, chemical systems that make
our detergents, economic systems that remove our rubbish, psychological
systems that govern our minds and power systems that govern our minds and
other systems.
> The point of my two
> additional questions was an attempt to add humanity to Richard's list of
> questions.
Yes, I understand
Kindest
gavin
--Gavin Ritz <garritz@xtra.co.nz>
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