PBR & Bus Drivers LO14592 -Alfie Kohn replies

Roxanne Abbas (rabbas@comp-web.com)
Sat, 02 Aug 1997 05:18:08

Dear Roxanne,
Would you please forward the following to Alfie Kohn?

Short Version of Question:
If you were a school bus driver, how would you manifest the ideas reflected
in "Punished by Rewards" to ensure a safe, respectful ride?
Please send the answer to sott@nkcsd.nkcsd.k12.mo.us

More detailed Version of Question:
I'm doing a seminar for bus drivers August 11, on how to improve the
relationship between drivers and riders. I was a driver for 3-1/2 years,
serving children who had been classified as having behavior disorders and
learning disabilities. I found that the school district's reward and
punishment scheme was counterproductive --- for all of the reasons you
state in your book.

Here's my question: I want to tell the drivers in my seminar about the
futility of rewards/punishments for "student management," but I can hear
some "veteran driver" making the case that perhaps on school buses, there
is no other way. Given the fact that we are going to pack 65 kids into a
bouncing metal tube for 30-45 minutes, the best we can hope for is
compliance, and it is too dangerous to experiment with other "unproven"
tactics. Unlike classroom teachers, drivers don't get to spend time
developing community. They must spend most of their time keeping people
from getting killed...literally.

How can I present your ideas without being laughed out of the seminar by
"experienced" drivers?

Thanks for investing your time and thought? (I also recently enjoyed
reading "Beyond Discipline." But, 'enjoyed' isn't the right word...it
disturbed me and fostered a healthy discomfort with the current state of
our schools.)

Grace & Peace,
Scott Ott, Public Relations Specialist
sott@nkcsd.k12.mo.us
The North Kansas City School District
http://www.nkcsd.k12.mo.us

On the Bus Driver's Dilemma:

I'd suggest inviting drivers to see that rewards and threats aren't
working even to get temporary compliance. Share stories about the awful
things some of the kids are doing, and help them understand that these
problems are happening under a current system of using the usual
disciplinary methods to keep control. Tell them that any risks or
problems with a new approach must be weighed against a status quo that, by
their own admission, is a failure.

Here's the alternative approach that I'd invite them to try with their
riders:

(1) Talk less, ask more. Pull the bus over after everyone's gotten on --
or spend a moment before leaving school on the way home -- and explain (in
a reasonable, respectful tone) your concerns: the dangers of jumping
around, the way everyone's mood is affected by overwhelming noise, and so
on. Ask the kids what THEY think can be done to solve these problems --
or what else about the bus ride is less than enjoyable for them. Ask them
to come back with some more ideas tomorrow. Ask them how much noise is OK
and how much is too much. Ask them why they think kids are sometimes
tempted to go crazy. And so on. Ideally, do this at the beginning of the
school year -- and then revisit the issue periodically.

(2) Suggest that each driver work to connect with each kid, saying hello,
asking what's going on in his or her life. I'd be willing to bet that the
drivers who already do that have fewer behavior problems. Check that out
in your seminar and ask the drivers to think about why it might be true.
(If you're feeling really ambitious, ask them what the likely effect of
standard rules and punishments would be on the relationships with kids
that they've just conceded are very important.)

(3) Urge drivers to be vulnerable, to admit that they don't really have
control over the kids. Urge them to make this admission to the kids
themselves. Stop the struggle for control before it begins by
acknowledging that the kids will always have the power to drive the driver
crazy, or even to cause an accident. Urge drivers to be honest with kids,
to apologize when they lose their tempers, to seek the kids' help.

(4) Finally, tell the drivers they have the right to seek help from
teachers and administrators. There's only so much that can be done on the
bus, as you say, but the solution is not to return to the demonstrated
failure of carrots & sticks; the solution is to make time in other
settings to solve (and prevent) problems -- perhaps incorporating a
discussion about "how we [that is, all of us] want our buses to be" in a
school meeting. (Contrast this way of framing the topic with "how we
expect you to act on buses," "what the rules are," etc.) Who knows --
this issue might provide a great example of democratic decision making and
community building that the other school staff will want to keep doing
around other issues.

(Finally, a very specific suggestion. Ask Tammy Stone, who I think still
works in the central office of the N. KC district, for suggestions as to
how to bring in other administrators to help support a non-traditional
approach.)

Good luck!

Roxanne Abbas
Abbas Compensation Strategies
rabbas@comp-web.com
http://www.comp-web.com

-- 

Roxanne Abbas <rabbas@comp-web.com>

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