Earlier, I wrote...
>> I assume Robert means that he can't make sense of the distinctions
>> between large groups as not doing things and small groups as doing
>> things. Neither can I. My point was and is that abstract entities
>> don't engage in action; people do. If a husband and wife do
>> something, it is the husband and wife who do it, not "the team" or
>> "the marriage" or "the family." These are shorthand descriptions for
>> groups of people and it is the members of the group who do things,
>> not the group, whether the group consists of two or 20 or 200 or
>> 2000 or 200,000,000.
Robert, in the message cited above, responds...
>I'm not sure where this thread has gone, but I understand Fred's concern
>about reification, but I disagree that his distinction is meaningful or
>useful.
Robert goes on to say that "...the NATO country pilots are doing the
physical action of the bombing, but they are doing it at the behest of
others who are making decisions with/for the collective organization.
Clinton is an actor in the process, as is Jones the pilot as are many
others, operating on behalf of a collective and speaking in the name of a
collective."
Robert adds, "On the org. side, if I do something as part of my employment
and at the request of my employer/organization, it is equally productive
to speak of ME as doing something, AND the organization DOING something,
because, simply, I would NOT be doing what I was requested unless the
organization requested me to do it, and if no actual person did something,
nothing would be done either."
Robert concludes, "So, there may be a point in Fred's distinction but
darned if I can figure out the point, in real terms. Isn't this just nit
picking?"
*****
No, I don't think it's "nit picking" and, in what I am sure is an
unintentional way, I think Robert has made my point for me. My point is
about individual responsibility and accountability for one's actions.
NATO, for instance, can never be held accountable or responsible for its
actions. Neither can Clinton or Jones the pilot; after all, they were
simply "operating on behalf of a collective."
Finally, for what it's worth, neither Clinton nor pilot Jones are speaking
or acting on my behalf.
--Regards,
Fred Nickols Distance Consulting http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm nickols@worldnet.att.net (609) 490-0095
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