Entropy production in the spiritual world LO23319

John Gunkler (jgunkler@sprintmail.com)
Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:48:40 -0600

Replying to LO23279 --

Count me proudly with the "everydots." Yes, Barry, there are
"transcendent" experiences that change our ways of thinking about the
world. But I, for one, don't believe that society's problem is
unwillingness to recognize them. Quite the opposite. I believe society's
problem is being too willing to recognize any outrageous, unsubstantiated
claim.

We are inundated, daily, by hundreds of claims of transcendent experiences
(for want of a better word -- by which I mean "transcending current
scientific ability to explain") -- mostly by quacks trying to "sell" us
something or by deluded, ignorant people who want to have their 15 minutes
of fame. Every day we have claims of health benefits beyond our wildest
dreams from taking some new-found dietary supplement, claims of ESP
abilities, claims of "X-files" conspiracies, claims of ways to avoid the
coming apocalypse, claims of rides in alien space ships, claims of
abilities to teach us to [fill in your favorite dream], etc., etc. We
have claims of innocence by the likes of O.J. Simpson -- who, I truly
think, now really believes he didn't do it (because delusion is the only
way his mind can allow him to continue to live with himself.)

I'm sorry -- but I cannot believe everything that I am asked to believe;
it would be self-contradictory to do so in many cases and, in others, it
would require that I undergo a weekly (or daily) Kuhnian paradigm shift in
my fundamental ways of dealing with the universe, which is too disruptive
to seriously contemplate. So, like the sensible everydots in your
illustration, I require more from someone who tries to sell me a "truth"
than simply their own endorsement, their own experience, or their own
belief (no matter how deeply felt -- like O.J.'s), or even their say-so
that 100's/1,000's/1,000,000's of others have shared the experience.
That's what science is about, to my thinking. It gives us ways to sort
out claims that are worthy of testing and eventual belief (even if they
turn out not to be useful in the long run -- because science does admit of
paradigm shifts occasionally) from those that do not.

So, I'm with the everydots, and gladly. Bring me more than your
idiosyncratic experience, show me how to jump up into the third (or
higher) dimension, demonstrate your jump and let me study it, introduce
me to a sphere, then I'll take you seriously and, probably, even join you
in jumping up. But simply tell me you've done it and refuse to give me
anything more -- sorry, I have better things to do right now.

John W. Gunkler
jgunkler@sprintmail.com

>In a 2-D world located on a single geometric plane, there lived a
>civilization of dots. These went about their business over time. One day,
>through some quirk which even today know one understands, a dot jumped
>above the plane of its existence, off the surface, into space above where
>suddenly, albeit too briefly there was revealed a third dimension.
>
>Upon returning to its plane of existence, this dot scurried everywhere,
>stopping everydot, relating breathlessly the experience which had arisen.
>Everydot was not amused; such experience was beyond their ken.
[..quote inserted by your host...]

-- 

"John Gunkler" <jgunkler@sprintmail.com>

Learning-org -- Hosted by Rick Karash <rkarash@karash.com> Public Dialog on Learning Organizations -- <http://www.learning-org.com>