Replying to LO25133 --
At quotes,
Andrew Campbell writes:
>>I happen to know that At de Lange does not like being
>>'attended to' as a 'mystical personality'.
SNIP
>Greetings Andrew,
>You are a careful reader picking up the even the tiniest stroke of the
>brush ;-)
-- Tiny marks have no superfluousness. --
SNIP
>I tried to shoot the message, not the messenger ;-)
You missed! I am OK, I am thin on superfluity too;-)
>Thank you for your fine answer and the new direction in which you helped
>our LO-dialogue to emerge.
>My first experiences in the desert many years ago was indeed mystical,
>even magical. Why? Because they were unexpected, unusual and emergent.
>Later on I realised that although they were unusual and emergent, they
>were inevitable.
BIG SNIP
>In other words, we ourselves are too closed to recognise the
>openness in the mystical person. In my mother tongue Afrikaans we express
>this by the saying "Ek is toe" -- I am closed.
Reminds me of Max Raphael's aesthetic of 'effective form' relating in
aesthetics and gestalt psychology to 'open' forms. I am looking forward to
meeting you in the deserts of Namibia. A girl I used to know had a photo
on her wall of herself hugging a cheetah. Do you have any cheetah friends
At?
SNIP
>I do not like to be called a "mystic" because it points to my failure as a
>midwife for emergent learning.
>Andrew, it will be very sad if the delightful topic "Evident Points,
>Hidden Points" which you have presented to our LO-dialogue fails to
>develop into a rich picture as a result of the very action of the LRC.
>I think there may be a dozen people reading on this list who
>might care to understand this below, in it I find reason for
>involvement past, present and future.
>>Truth is given once and for all, and it is laid down with precision.
>>Fundamentally, truth merely needs to be transmitted.
>>The originality of the exploring learner has two aspects.
>>In his spontaneity, he develops and explains what was
>>transmitted no matter whether it was known or forgotten
>>and had to be rediscovered. The effort of the seeker after
>>truth consists not in having new ideas but rather in
>>subordinating himself to the continuity of tradition....
>>and in laying open what he receives from it in the context
>>f his own time and experience.
>>In other words;-) not system but commentary is the
>>legitimate form/(content) through which truth is approached.
>
>>Gershom Scholem (Jewish Scholar of Jewish Mysticism)
>Dear Andrew, some thirty years ago I would have agreed very much with what
>you have quoted above. But today I have not only grave doubts, but also
>know that it is not the whole story.
>It all hinges on one seemingly simple question.
>Is truth simple or complex?
>If truth is simple, then the above quote may be fitting to it.
I took it that Scholem was talking about a 'special case', the sacred
texts, as being directly extended words from the Godhead (?) and that its
exegesis through time was a creative act in itself; I believe the Koran
has a three tiered approach to interpretation, from a simple 7 ;-) to a
complex 777 ;-))) leaving the way 'open' for 'philosophers' to re-create
ever new interpretations within their 'Personal Visions' in 'Current
Realities' without contradicting the sacred text that is unfolding the
'Shared Vision';-).
>But should truth become more complex along the creative course of time,
>truth is not given for once and all with precision. Hence even sureness
>for the emergence of truth has to grow. There is indeed a link between
>the less complex levels of "present truth" with the highest level of "past
>truth". This is why present spontaneous discoveries can be connected to
>past articulations of the truth provided they have been preserved
>(transmitted) up to the present. This can be seen as a vindication in
>"present truth" of "past truths" as Scholem notes.
But bearing the LRC in mind, both the "past truth", "present truth" and
even "future truth" in one and the same topic can be seen as "truth
necessarily manifesting itself whenever the requiste level of complexity
has been reached". This allows for truth in other topics to emerge along
the creative course of time, for "present truth" to be more than "past
truth" and "future truth" to be more than even "present truth". In other
words, even truth have "hidden points" to it and not merely "evident
points". Some of these "hidden points" may take a very long time to
emerge.
The title was sent to Rick as: -
Directly Evident Points, Slightly Hidden Points and Extremely Hidden Points,
but the whole title did not fit;-( so the unfolding of truth is indeed felt
as subtle in Budhhism's way of reckoning it.
[Host's Note: That's right; very long subject lines cause problems. I
shortened it. ..Rick]
BIG SNIP
>Andrew, does this not make truth a becoming rather than merely a being?
That certainly seems to imply it's a Both/And...;-)? You know, I often think
how fortunate Albert Einstein was..... in that you get to follow him in the
irreversibility of complexification and not the other way around ((((;-))).
Many people like to use the famous quote of Einstein's about how things
should be as simple as possible, but no simpler. Few care to understand he
was talking about scientific inquiry. That is not to say his remark is
limited or limiting and it kind of takes me back to the comment about a
'tiniest stroke'.
At, if I read you right, a human thought is the tiniest stroke of creation.
That is very, very beautiful.
If you take just one finger and stroke in gentle circles the topmost head of
an animal say like 'Bucket' or 'Daisy', but it works just as well with a
wolf, you will illicit the gentle 'sigh' of a yawn and with it the curling of
the tongue. This is maybe a pre-emptive form of creative collapse?
Yesterday I took all my graphic works on paper for the last twenty years and
destroyed them.
For my part is seemed to have something to do with what is trying to unfold
all around about irreversibility.
I have yet to catch up with my feeling about that, but I do not get the
feeling I am about to chase my own tail for the next twenty years.
Many thanks At,
Andrew
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