Dear LO'ers, dear Jon,
Well, that was a lengthy, but VERY interesting contribution of you, Jon. I
keep it in my files.
Before you may write a complete book on this subject, or a paper for
submission to a journal on behavioural sciences (which I recommend), I
have some informative questions concerning the 4:1 ratio (positive
reinforcers:punishers). As you mentioned, according to several studies, it
has been observed that 4 positive reinforcers have the effect of 1
punishment (to change behaviour).
Jon, this was for me a surprising observation. If you remember the push -
pull discussion, we made a rather tentative conclusion that pulling is
more effective (because of focussing and concentrating) than pushing
(which tends to have spreading effects). If we may compare behaviour with
a supermarket trolley and we like to have control over it, or even change
direction of the trolley (behaviour), it is easier to pull than to push
(despite the design of the trolley). We have complete control with one
hand if we pull, but need two hands to push. And coping with a physical
threshold, the pushing (even with two hands) is a waste of working energy.
In other words, positive reinforcers as attractors seem less effective
than punishment, according to the 4:1 ratio.
However, later in your contribution, you say:
>At has encouraged (for example in LO20330), as have I on numerous
>occasions, that we are best off if we use positive reinforcement to guide
>behaviour. Without positive reinforcement, spontaneous and irreversible
>self-organization is not possible.
Does this mean that we must generate four times as much energy to guide
behaviour with this method, than if we use punishment?? If this is true,
and honostly I do not have reasons to doubt, it explains much. This will
also be a great lesson for parents, lawyers, governments, teachers and
managers (but ofcourse, first of all WE, ourselves).
However, I still cannot link this observation with my thoughts on the
push/pull-principles.
Please Jon (or John Gunkler, or others), can you explain this somewhat
deeper. The results are for me very important, because I like to guide
myself also into other threads, outside the behavioural sciences.
dr. Leo D. Minnigh
minnigh@library.tudelft.nl
Library Technical University Delft
PO BOX 98, 2600 MG Delft, The Netherlands
Tel.: 31 15 2782226
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Let your thoughts meander towards a sea of ideas.
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--Leo Minnigh <L.D.Minnigh@library.tudelft.nl>
Learning-org -- Hosted by Rick Karash <rkarash@karash.com> Public Dialog on Learning Organizations -- <http://www.learning-org.com>