Replying to LO27935 --
Dear Learners,
Thank you very much for your comments on the topic I raised the other day.
I really appreciate them.
In response to At, I have to reckon that it sounds as if you are not the
biggest defensor of the ISO 9000;-). I can perceive the problems that this
certification implies in learning and the overall improvemant of the
organisation. However, It has to be recognised that more and more
companies all over the globe are adopting this certification and many of
them are happy to announce the benefits that ISO carried to them. I admit
that, in many cases, European companies require their suppliers to be
certified and therefore, for many companies is more a requisite than an
option. However, there are many companies that chose to follow ISO 9000
requirements because of the advantages that these standards will imply.
The best example of this are companies that are NOT certified. These are
companies that follow the requirements of the ISO but do not register as
they don't feel it necessary. These companies claim that following the
guidelines established by the ISO helps to improve the overall performance
of the organisation, to reduce costs and therefore, to improve efficiency.
When I referred to the quality in the organisation as a sub-sistem, I was
trying to explain that both approaches have room within the same
organisation. However, Quality cannot be considered as an isolated area
within the organisation. As the International Organisation for
Standardisation (ISO) explains, "ISO is more than a quality certification
for it involves the way of operating within the whole organisation." In
order to be certified, the organisation muct stick to some requirements
and these, do not only affect quality but all the procedures in the
organisation. This is when the problem arises. If ISO 9000 were just a
quality system within the whole of the organisation, incompatibilities
could be easily sorted out. However (and I would add: unfortunately) this
is not the case. ISO implies requirements in the whole and some of them
seem to be against the philosophy of the LO. Having said that, I would
really appreciate if I could receive any other views from learners who
happen to have this certification in their organisations or to know
learning organisations which have it.
In respond to At and for all the org-learners, my apologies for calling
you "experts". I did not mean to narrow your area of knowledge but to
emphasize your profound knowledge in this area. Once again, I will put the
excuse of my poor English and leave it as if I could not find any other
word in my limited vocabulary ;-).
By the way, and responding to At and Artur, let me tell you that I come
from the Basque Country, Northern Spain, where we have our own language:
Basque. My name is the Basque version of Elisabeth (we love "x" in
Basque.) The Spanish version is "Isabel".
I used to work in a shipping agency in Spain that was certified with the
ISO 9000. That was two years ago. Then I moved to London and got another
job and after a while, I started my MBA. As you can imagine, I expend a
lot of time trying to find out about the ISO and the learning organisation
-the topic of my project-so I will place lots of questions in this
dialogue. I really appreciate all the comments so if you can find the time
to write your insights...you will make my day!
Best wishes,
Elixabete
>From: "Artur F. Silva" <artsilva@mail.eunet.pt>
>To: "elixabete escalona" <eliescalona@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Intro -- Elixabete Escalona LO27935
>Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:58:34 +0000
>
>Hello Elixabete:
>
>Greetings from Portugal. A very interesting point yours about the
>relationship
>between ISO and LOs. I hope to get the time to comment on that to the list
>during the next weekend, but I think you are right - they are contradictory
>in a great measure. And specially if one aproaches the LOs less from the
>point of view of Senge's disciplines and more from the point of view of
>Arie the Geus.
--"elixabete escalona" <eliescalona@hotmail.com>
Learning-org -- Hosted by Rick Karash <Richard@Karash.com> Public Dialog on Learning Organizations -- <http://www.learning-org.com>
"Learning-org" and the format of our message identifiers (LO1234, etc.) are trademarks of Richard Karash.