Dear Richard,
Thanks for your reply which I must admit I found a little patronising
although I am sure that was not your intent.
Your correctly state that in regard to Faulker's "endure and prevail"
speach that it supports your BELIEF in human progress. The whole human
progress argument cannot be accepted without critique. It is by no means
self-evident that the march of human history has been, overall, a march of
progress. Others have taken up this argument with more cogency.
I have no argument that Faulkner is a great writer, that does not mean
that all he writes is above analysis, especially the assumptions
underlying what he writes.
As for stereotypical comments-
>I would also be wary, if I were you, of making sterotypical comments on
>the culture of the US (or any other country or society, for that matter)
>when looking at it from abroad. I speak as one who spent much of my first
>44 years in one country (the US) and most of the last 7 in another
>(Scotland)
-If you read my post carefully you would note I couched my comments about
the US with some caution. As to international experience, I was born in
the UK, lived a number of years in Europe, have studied at 2 overseas
institutions and speak 3 languages. I think I have had as much
"international experience" as many so please do not try to undermine my
qualifications to make comment.
You then go on to point out the faults of Greek civilisation, especially
the fact it was "misogynistic, class-ridden, (and) slave-based." I think
I strongly implied that Greek civilisation was not unproblematic in my
original comment:
>but underneath there were the artisans, farmers, slaves and women who
>remain nameless today, and were probably largely anonymous even then.
Please do me the courtesy of reading my post carefully before you go on to
"correct" it!
The point of that section in my post was to make a distinction between the
individual aspects of Greek persons of historical distinction and the
emergent characteristics of the civilisation as-a-whole.
But Richard, I reserve most concern for your views on pre-literate cultures-
>I fully agree with you that we can and should learn much from
>"pre-literate" cultures. And yet, to a degree, do not the "aboriginals"
>of Australia (and other cultures of similar "development") both "endure"
>and "prevail" (to get back to Faulkner) because they have come to a peace
>with an environment that is unsustainable?
-again I disagree. I think all human civilisations should be examined as
being of interest in themsleves not simply as historical learning fodder
for those who come after. That is not to say there are not distasteful
aspects of all cultures as well.
Your view that nomadic cultures come "to peace" with their environment is
also false based on anthropological and geological data. We now know that
many nomadic culture profoundly shaped and changed their environment, in
Australia especially through the use of fire to burn down forests and
create grasslands. Yours is the "garden of Eden" view of pre-history, not
uncommon amongst those who support the progess view of history.
As to the fool's paradise argument, it reeks of cultural imperialism to
me. These poor, unsustainable illiterate nomads of the world just waiting
for the progress-bearers to bring them the flu, the commmon cold and
veneral diseases!
In your comments on the professions, you confuse ranking with expertise.
A good dentist knows his or her professional limitations. If they are not
capable fo doing a particular peice of work, they refer to someone who
can. This is not a matter of rank in the way we have been discussing it
on the list, but of expertise.
And finally-
>Don't you now wish you hadn't added this question?
Not at all, but you write as though your post is the final word on the
matter!! Time will tell,
Philip
Philip Pogson
Manager Organisation Development Unit
University of Sydney
Margaret Telfer Building, K07
NSW 2006 Australia
ph: +61 2 9351 4218
+61 2 9351 3177 (direct)
fax: +61 2 9351 4951
Training Program URL:- http://www.usyd.edu.au/su/stafdev/
"We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied
in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly,
affects all indirectly."
Martin Luther King Jnr
--Philip Pogson <P.Pogson@perspolicy.usyd.edu.au>
Learning-org -- Hosted by Rick Karash <rkarash@karash.com> Public Dialog on Learning Organizations -- <http://www.learning-org.com>